In the latest episode of That Podcast (episode #27) hosts Beau Simensen and Dave Marshall talk with Chris Hartjes a.k.a. the "Grumpy Programmer".

Beau and Dave talk to Chris Hartjes, commonly known as the Grumpy Programmer. They talk about how Chris grew his personal brand to support his collection of educational products, testing and testing tools, frameworks and components, and OpenCFP.

Other topics mentioned in this episode include the Paircasts, Chris' "Minimum Viable Tests" book and Marionette, an automation tool used to control the UI of a Gecko-based browser (like Firefox). You can listen to this latest episode either through the in-page audio player or by downloading the mp3 of the show. Be warned, though, that there were technical difficulties and the show is shorter than usual. If you enjoy listening, though, be sure to subscribe to their feed for information on new episodes as they're released.