I love PHP - All my spagetti is written in it - I'm looking at cakePHP as a good improvement moving forward - But the transition from freeballing to frameworking is a little daunting - with sharp edges. What is really lacking at this point in time is an "Idiot Guide" to cakePHP - Why you might ask do PHP devlopers need to be treated like idots - They arn't - Well true - But a framework that is thought out to this degree as cakePHP is requires unlearning. Those of us that have developed our own snippet resources. Solutions to common problems (Database abstraction et al) File structures on projects - etc etc - Need to now try on this new set of cloths - Sure, at the end of the day we should - Even ought - But there will be and is an adjustment. Without a full set of a to b to z documentation filling in all the gaps - The unlearning is hard going. Don't get me wrong - Personally - or my own professional trajectory I will press forward - And delve into the code. No doubt I will endevour to write the missing manual along the way. If you have the ambition to extend your horizons and increase your productive effort I urge you to delve in. Just be warned your going to learn new things in the way you go about using the programming language you love. Julian Woolford - www.kimachi.com